I contracted HIV on purpose now people
我故意感染了艾滋病毒 现在人们
ask me to give it to them what the what
要求我给他们什么
is sexual about wanting to chase for HIV
是性欲 想要追逐艾滋病毒
people do it for different reasons I'm
人们出于不同的原因这样做 我
asking you why you do it I'm not trying
问你为什么这样做 我不是想
to shock you and I appreciate that a lot
震惊你和我 感谢很多
of people do find it a very distressing
人确实发现这是一个非常令人痛苦的
Topic at the end of the day you're
话题，在一天结束时，你正在选择
playing with your life by choice because
玩弄你的生活，因为
you want to have more pleasure but
你想要有更多的快乐，但
pleasure is very important nah nah like
快乐是非常重要的，不，就像
there's not so many things that can give
没有那么多东西可以 给
you extra pleasure that doesn't involve
你额外的快乐，但不涉及
you having be back sex the fear that
你重新做爱，担心
you're going to get HIV is actually it's
你会感染艾滋病毒，这实际上
not a little bit more pleasure it ruins
不是一点点的快乐，它会永远破坏
your intimacy for good what I'm going to
你的亲密关系，我
say now is probably going to really
现在要说的可能是 让
really upset you and probably really
你真的很心烦意乱，可能真的让
sicken you you have to appreciate this
你感到恶心，你必须明白，这需要接受
is a lot to take in I just need to be
很多东西，我现在只需要一个人
left alone right now cuz this is just
呆着，因为这太
mad the term bug chasing refers to
疯狂了，“追虫”这个词指的是
someone who's HIV negative but wants to
艾滋病毒呈阴性但想
be infected with the HIV virus bug
被感染的人 与艾滋病毒病毒
chasing is actually a very very small
追逐实际上
proportion of the gay community and
在同性恋群体和
people who are HIV positive the number
艾滋病毒呈阳性的人中只占很小的比例，
that deliberately bug chased is again
故意追逐病毒的人数也
really quite a small proportion I've
确实很小，我
been described as an ethical gifter in
被描述为有道德的礼物赠送者，因为
that I have a conversation with someone
我有一个 与某人交谈，
so I would never
这样我就不会在
go up and have sex with someone randomly
without first having a discussion about
没有先讨论
my status why would anybody want to be
我的状况的情况下随意与某人发生性关系 为什么有人会出于
given HIV for all sorts of reasons some
各种原因想要感染艾滋病毒 有些人
see it as a fetish some see it as power
认为这是一种恋物癖 有些人认为这是权力
play situation Some People Want it so
游戏有些人 人们想要它，这样
they can relax will you seek any medical
他们就可以放松，你会为此寻求任何医疗
help for that at all I will do at some
帮助吗？我会做一些，
so you're going to so you're going to
所以你会这样做，所以你会
knowingly give yourself something and
故意给自己一些东西，
then use an NHS service it's already
然后使用 NHS 服务，这已经很
strange because you're fulfilling some
奇怪了，因为你' 我正在满足某种
sort of weird fetish or fantasy I didn't
奇怪的恋物癖或幻想，我不是
contract it for fetish or fantasy but
为了恋物癖或幻想而契约它，但
will you use my question is will you
你会使用我的问题是你会
then use you've knowingly given yourself
使用你故意给自己
something and then are you going to then
一些东西然后你会
use are you going to go private so
使用你会去吗 私人所以
you're paying for it yourself because
你要自己付费，因为
it's something you've chosen to give
这是你选择给
yourself or are you going to use the NHS
自己的东西，或者你打算使用 NHS
I won't be going private I will be using
我不会去私人
the NHS at some point when I decide to
当我决定去药物治疗时，我会在某个时候使用 NHS
go
medication however there's also the
还有一种说法是，那些
argument that people who take
use up NHS projects as well I've been
参与 NHS 项目的人，我也一直在
struggling to actually say anything
努力说些什么，
because I have been living with HIV for
因为我已经感染艾滋病毒
10 years and
10 年了，
although I right now I've got a handle
尽管我现在
on it mentally from the very beginning
从一开始就在精神上控制住了它。 一开始
I've been undetectable no risk to my
我是无法察觉的，对我的伴侣没有风险，
partners but I know a lot of people
但我知道很多人
don't have that privilege and people
没有这种特权，人们
kill themselves after diagnoses when
在诊断后
they realize what the reality is right
意识到现实是正确的，
that said for a lot of people mentally
这对很多人来说是
the gayest thing you can do is get HIV
最快乐的事情，他们会自杀。 我能做的就是感染艾滋病毒，
so I think it's no surprise that some
所以我认为有些
people derive sexual pleasure and it's
人获得性快感并不奇怪，这是
part of people sexual behaviors I don't
人们性行为的一部分，在我决定之前，我不会
for one moment try to take anything away
试图
from you and your experiences or negate
从你和你的经历中夺走任何东西，或者否定
what's happened to you before I decide
发生在你身上的事情 与
to have sex with someone who asks me to
要求我感染艾滋病毒的人发生性关系
give them HIV I have quite long
conversations with them before I meet to
在见面之前我与他们进行了很长时间的交谈，以
make sure they are fully aware of what
确保他们完全意识到这
the implications will be to them
对他们个人将产生什么影响
personally how Noble I'm sorry said how
多么高贵 我很抱歉说多么
Noble so what is the law in terms of
高贵 那么什么是 法律上
giving people hoov there's something
有一种
called Reckless transmission and if I
叫做鲁莽传播的东西，如果我把
passed on my hoov to someone who didn't
我的蹄子传递给一个不
know my status that I hadn't disclosed
知道我的身份的人，我就不会透露给他们，
it to if they weren't aware of my status
如果他们不知道我的身份，
I hadn't used a condom or take another
我就不会这样做 使用安全套或采取其他
precautions I could be charged with BBH
预防措施 我个人可能会被控 BBH
personally I've never had sex with
我从未与
someone who hasn't known my status or if
不知道我的身份的人发生过性行为，或者如果
they haven't known my status that I
他们不知道我的身份，我就
haven't had the type of sex that would
没有发生过会发生性行为的类型
they be at risk from Contracting HIV do
他们有感染艾滋病毒的风险
you know how many people have contracted
你知道有多少人
HIV from you not everyone chooses to
从你那里感染了艾滋病毒 不是每个人都选择
tell me but yet I've got a pretty good
告诉我，但我很清楚有多少人在
idea of how many haveit positive after
having sex with me what's your rough
与我发生性关系后感染了艾滋病毒 你的粗略
estimate I don't really want to
估计是多少 我不知道 我真的不想回答，
yeah no I I prefer not to answer that
是的，不，我不想回答，
I've never heard back from anyone that
我从来没有收到任何与
I've had sex with that hasn't regretted
我发生过性关系的人的回复，并且在事后没有后悔
a positive test result
测试结果呈阳性，
afterwards I do know of other people who
我确实知道其他人也
have regretted it maybe it just goes to
后悔过，也许是这样 只是
show because of those outcomes that the
因为这些结果而表明，
approach I take is the moral is the
我采取的方法是道德的，是
ethical approach to it and
道德的方法，
helps minimize the risk of someone
有助于最大限度地减少某人
reacting badly to their
对诊断做出不良反应的风险，
diagnosis or maybe I'm kiding
或者也许我在自欺欺人，把
myself what's the sexual element about
putting yourself and putting your life
自己和把自己放在一起的性元素是什么？ 你的生命
at risk and putting other people's lives
处于危险之中，也将其他人的生命
at risk where where's the sexual element
置于危险之中，哪里有性元素，
in that I didn't have a sexual element
因为我
to it myself when I was chasing it
自己在追逐它时没有性元素，
was for practical purposes so that I
是出于实际目的，这样我
could relax more during
可以在过程中更加放松是否
is there a sexual element to giving HIV
有性元素
to other people for you not always
although people approach me to have sex
虽然人们接近我与他们发生性关系
with them to infect them with HIV I
以使他们感染艾滋病毒，但我
still have to have some sort of sexual
仍然必须对他们有某种性
attraction or
吸引力或
chemistry to them so you wouldn't say
化学反应，这样你就不会说
you ftiz the actual act of giving
你自己的实际行为 给
somebody HIV you know what I mean like
某人感染艾滋病毒 你知道我的意思 是的
yes yes it's just the attraction of
是的 这只是
having sex with
与某人发生性关系的吸引力
someone what do you do for a
你以什么为生
living
I can sort of anticipate the reaction
我可以预见
that my answer will generate I work in
我的答案会产生的反应 我在
Health Services it's not a clinical role
卫生服务部门工作 这不是临床角色，
but it's a administrative role that's
但是 这是一个行政角色，绝对是
definitely a
Twist have
Twist 的角色，
so I don't know yet I just feel
所以我还不知道，我只是觉得
everyone's just talking at me and asking
每个人都在对我说话，问
me questions and I just need to be left
我问题，而我现在只需要一个人
alone right now cuz this is just
呆着，因为这只是
[Applause]
[掌声]
mad what was your life like growing up
疯狂，你的生活是什么 就像成长
so I lived with my mom and my stepdad
一样，我和妈妈、继父
and my younger brother it was a fairly
和弟弟住在一起，这是一个相当
normal family life I had a good
正常的家庭生活，我受过良好的
education I lost my virginity to a man
教育，我在 14 岁的时候向一个男人失去了童贞，
when I was 14 and I met my wife to be at
我在大学认识了我的妻子，
University and we had a generally good
我们 总体上
relationship I still always considered
我的关系很好
that I was gay when I was married I did
我结婚时仍然总是认为我是同性恋 我
sometimes have sex with men but when I
有时确实与男人发生性关系，但当我这样
did my focus was always on as much
做时，我的重点总是放在
protection as I could possibly have if I
尽可能多的保护上，如果我
had spread something to my wife through
通过途径将某些东西传播给了我的妻子
my own actions I don't think I could
我自己的行为，我不认为我可以
have lived with myself and so I took
和自己一起生活，所以我采取了
every possible precaution you're shaking
一切可能的预防措施，你在
your head yeah cuz that's ironic oh I
摇头，是的，因为这很讽刺，哦，我
wouldn't want to give her I wouldn't
不想给她，我不会和
live with yourself but you continuously
自己一起生活，但你不断地
would go out and have unprotected sex
会出去和男人进行无保护的性行为
with men any sexual activity I have with
men when I was married and I was still
当我结婚时我和男人发生的任何性活动 而且我仍然
having sex with my wife as well it was
和我的妻子发生性关系 这完全受到
totally totally protected it was only
保护 只有
after I got divorced it felt as if I was
在我离婚后才感觉好像我
less off the leash almost in terms of
少了 在性方面几乎不受束缚，
sex I knew what the risks were with
我知道
having unprotected sex and I knew at
无保护性行为的风险是什么，我知道在
some point I probably would get HIV but
某些时候我可能会感染艾滋病毒，但在
at that time when I first started I
我刚开始的时候，我
wasn't looking to deliberately get HIV
并不想故意感染艾滋病毒，
and that just sort of evolved over time
这只是排序 随着时间的推移而演变的
why if you want to have unprotected sex
为什么如果你想要进行无保护的性行为
why not go on prep why contract HIV yeah
为什么不继续准备为什么感染艾滋病毒是的
I know certainly when I first started
我当然知道当我第一次开始
thinking about becoming HIV positive
考虑成为艾滋病毒阳性时
prep wasn't an option when I consciously
准备不是一个选择当我有意识地
made the decision to chase prep was
决定追逐准备是
available but because of other
可用的 但由于我
medication that I was on and the process
正在服用其他药物，而且
I had to go through to get stable for
我必须经历
another health condition it really put
另一个健康状况稳定下来的过程，这确实让
me off going on prep and adding
我放弃了准备工作并添加了
something else into the mix as well it
其他药物，而且
took 10 years for me to contract HOV
我花了 10 年才感染 HOV
towards the end of that per period I
在每个周期结束时，我
decided that I would then start to
决定开始
actively seek HIV positive guys to have
积极寻找艾滋病毒呈阳性的男性
sex with what I'm going to say now is
与我现在要说的发生性关系，这
probably going to really really upset
可能会让你真的很沮丧，
you and probably really sicken you so I
并且可能真的让你感到恶心，所以我
then started seeking out guys who were
开始寻找
happy to blood slam me and that is
injecting me with their
blood I sought out three guys who were
我找到了三个
HIV positive who were happy to inject me
艾滋病毒呈阳性的人，他们很乐意为我注射血液，
and I arranged to meet them a few weeks
几周后我安排与他们见面，
later I tested myself and I was HIV
我进行了自我测试，我的艾滋病毒呈
positive when I got my test results it
阳性 当我得到测试结果时，这
was almost a bit of an
几乎有点
anticlimax it wasn't what I was
虎头蛇尾，这根本不是我所
expecting at all and you still look
期待的，而且你看起来仍然
disgusted yeah cuz you do disgust me
很恶心，是的，因为你确实让我恶心，好吧，
okay then I appreciate everyone has a a
然后我很感激每个人对此都有
different idea about it um what do you
不同的想法，嗯，你怎么办？ 意思
mean a different idea you say things
是不同的想法，你会说
like You're justifying
这样的话：你正在辩护，
but some of them are justifiable and I
但其中一些是合理的，我
feel like you are closed off to it no
觉得你对它关闭了，不，
I'm not closed off to it if I was closed
我没有对它关闭，如果我对它
off to it I wouldn't be sat here
关闭了，我就不会坐 在这里
listening to chat if I was closed off
听聊天，如果我
about it I would not be sat here
对这件事感到封闭，我不会坐在这里
listening to him chat but the things
听他聊天，但
that you are saying you cannot expect me
你所说的事情，你不能指望我
to sit here and be all Smiley with you
坐在这里，和你一起微笑，
what are you expecting from me I can
你对我的期望是什么，我可以
relate to one thing you said quite
理解 你说得很深刻的一件事，
deeply even though I
尽管我
don't share your decision to gift people
不同意你给我也经历过的人送礼物的决定，
I have also experienced against what it
反对总是想
feels like to be always wondering when
知道
you're going to get HIV since I
你什么时候会感染艾滋病毒的感觉，因为我
contracted HIV despite everything that
感染了艾滋病毒，尽管
happened and all the pain like I cried
发生了一切， 疼痛就像我最初哭了六个月一样，
for 6 months
initially I have never had better sex
我从来没有比之后更好的性生活，
than after because I don't have to worry
因为我不必
about that one thing so I get that I get
担心这一件事，所以我明白了，我明白了，这让
that and it saddens me that most people
我很难过，大多数人
won't give it enough space to hear that
不会给它足够的空间 听到
like this is unique most people will
这样的说法是独一无二的，大多数人
judge you before they even but there's
甚至会在他们之前就评判你，但
in the no no no this is what I'm talking
不不不，这就是我所说的
about no because at the end of the day
不，因为到最后，
you're playing with your life by choice
你是在选择玩弄你的生活，
because you want to have more pleasure
因为你想要 拥有更多的快乐，
but pleasure is very important sex is
但快乐非常重要，性就是
sex no yeah it is sex is sex sex is sex
性，不，是性，就是性，性就是性，
just because you want a bit more
只是因为你想要
pleasure in bed like there's not so many
在床上得到更多的快乐，就像没有那么多
things that can give you extra pleasure
东西可以给你额外的快乐，而不
that doesn't involve you having be back
涉及你 回来
sex
做爱
and doesn't involve you getting HIV and
，并不会让你感染艾滋病毒，
and and and and then giving other people
然后让其他人
HIV the fear that you're going to get
担心你会感染
HIV can it's actually it's not a little
艾滋病毒，这实际上不是
bit more pleasure it ruins your intimacy
更多的快乐，它会永远破坏你的亲密关系，
for good I think it's genuinely like
我认为
heartbreaking that people put themselves
人们把自己放在
in that position and feel like they have
那个位置上，感觉他们必须把
to put themselves in that position I
自己放在那个位置上，这真的让人心碎，我
really think that's so so deeply sad but
真的认为这是非常悲伤的，但
I but on the flip side of it I do think
我但另一方面，我确实
think that there is there's there's so
认为有，有，所以
there's so many issues with that so it's
有 有很多问题，所以这是
a condition that is treatable yeah but
可以治疗的情况是的，但是
then you're also putting more strain on
你也会给 HS 带来更大的压力，
the HS that's what I'm saying I'm I'm
这就是我所说的，我是
gay I've got a lot of gay friends and I
同性恋，我有很多同性恋朋友，我
know people that have H I don't know
知道 我不知道
anyone that's actively wanted to have
有谁主动想要感染
HIV but I've seen people going through
艾滋病毒，但我见过有人经历过
that and I've been there for people that
这种情况，而且我一直在帮助那些
have gone through that and I understand
经历过这种情况的人，我理解
why you and a lot of other people think
为什么你和很多其他人会这样想 我
like that as well understand why you
也明白为什么你
feel like you I I get the side of it
感觉像你，我明白
where you like that that freeing moment
你喜欢那个自由的时刻，
then of it being like there's not this
然后就好像没有这种
looming thing I totally get where you're
迫在眉睫的事情，我完全明白你
coming from as well for so many people
来自哪里，对很多人来说，
it's a life-changing moment and very
这就是生活 -改变的时刻和非常
traumatic I'm not here to try and
痛苦的我来这里不是为了向
justify myself to anyone I'm here to
任何人证明自己的合理性我来这里是为了
explain why I do the things that I do
解释为什么我做我所做的事情
but that's not necessarily justifying
但这并不一定证明
what I do the way sometimes I think that
我所做的事情是合理的有时我认为
this discussion has gone is that it
这个讨论已经消失了 是的，
seemed that everyone in the gay
似乎同性恋群体中的每个人都
community is wanted to be H positive but
希望成为 H 阳性，但
it's actually quite a a small proportion
实际上只占很小的比例。
in fact I'd say it's like a niche within
事实上，我想说这就像一个利基中的一个利基，
a niche why did you decide to wear a
为什么你决定戴上面具，
mask and would you ever show your face
你会展示你的面具吗？
given what you've told us because it is
考虑到您告诉我们的内容，因为这是
such an emotive subject both hi in
一个非常情绪化的话题，无论是
general and particularly bug chasing and
总体而言，还是特别是追逐错误和
gift giving then I wouldn't feel happy
赠送礼物，那么我不会高兴地公开
talking generally and openly about my
谈论我的
choices and about my status I'm happy
选择和我的状态，我对此感到满意
with the choices I've made I don't
我所做的选择我不
regret them whether I'll do them again
后悔我是否会
in the same way in another life I don't
在另一种生活中以同样的方式再次这样做我不
know but I don't think the vast majority
知道但我不认为绝大多数
of people would ever truly understand my
人会真正理解我
reasons for bug chasing gift giving it
追逐错误的原因 送礼物对于
just doesn't
seem logical to to I think the majority
大多数人来说似乎不合逻辑，
of
people even within the gay community
即使是在同性恋群体中，
even though I understand where you're
即使我理解你来自哪里，
coming from I feel like it's almost
我觉得这几乎
undoing the work I spent 5 years in
毁掉了我在激进主义中花费了 5 年的工作，
activism this is not the most triggering
这不是
thing that's happened today because I
今天发生的最触动人心的事情，因为我
actually get you I don't agree with you
真的明白你的意思，我当然不同意你的观点，
sure but I see where it's coming from
但我知道它来自哪里，但这
but what this has brought up
带来的
is how a lot of people particularly
是很多人，特别是
straight people don't pay attention to
直人，没有注意到这样一个
the fact that Society
事实： 与
us and then points fingers at us for
我们交往，然后指责我们提出了
having issues valid issues and
有效的问题，并
fetishizing the pain that we that we
迷恋我们所
carry I'm not trying to shock you and I
承受的痛苦，我并不是想让你震惊，我很
appreciate that a lot of people do find
欣赏很多人确实认为
it a very distressing topic I'm not
这是一个非常令人痛苦的话题，我没有这样
doing it to create that sort of reaction
做
thank you though
谢谢你
for listening to me and even if you
听我说，即使你
don't agree for at least listening to
不同意至少听
what I've had to say I appreciate that
我说的话我很感激，
likewise I think this must have been
同样我认为这对
really difficult for you I appreciate it
你来说一定很困难我很感激
please that was difficult that was
拜托，这对
really difficult for me I can tell that
我来说真的很困难，我可以告诉你，这对
it was difficult for you as well oh me
你来说也很困难哦，我，
that's I've just stayed quiet cuz I have
我只是保持安静，因为我什么都
nothing nothing like the the arrogance
没有，傲慢，
the narcissism the entitlement the
自恋，权利，
privilege I see different things I see
特权，我看到不同的东西 我看到了
oppression and potentially oppression
压迫和潜在的压迫，
yeah okay well you okay so you see this
是的，好吧，你好吧，所以你看，这
is one of the things that I don't think
是我认为你没有意识到的事情之一，
you
perceive you can't expect anyone to feel
你不能指望任何人
empathetic for people of your community
对你社区中的类似人感到同情，我
that are like that I think I think I
想我认为 我
think that I think the end of it is
想我认为它的结局是
there's just way too much to unwrap here
这里有太多的东西需要解开，
well I'm done I'm done
我已经完成了，我现在已经完成了
now